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A sad day (Politics)

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    #16
    Originally posted by jc, liverpool View Post
    Hi Lucy
    And she believes those problems can only be resolved with Scotland being an Independent country.

    You know the line by now......’Take back control...Regain Sovereignty’

    Whats good for the goose etc...

    Btw,,,I don’t want Scotland to be independent,,,,but I do believe the Scottish people have the right to determine their own future.
    And I read that every single poll,month after month shows that’s what the people want..

    The elections in May might tell us,,,a resounding victory for the SNP will lead to Nicola claiming she is right,,,,just like Boris used his victory to claim his right to take us out of the EU at any cost.

    JC


    Nicola Sturgeon is the first minister. She cannot blame anyone or anything else - the buck stops with her. She cannot even follow her own simple rules and ends up apologising for breaking the Covid rules when she has stood up and criticised everyone else. Time for Nicola Sturgeon to sort out Scotland's problems - she has devolved power but is not using it to sort out lots of issues.

    Comment


      #17
      Originally posted by lucy, sutton View Post

      Nicola Sturgeon is the first minister. She cannot blame anyone or anything else - the buck stops with her. She cannot even follow her own simple rules and ends up apologising for breaking the Covid rules when she has stood up and criticised everyone else. Time for Nicola Sturgeon to sort out Scotland's problems - she has devolved power but is not using it to sort out lots of issues.
      Hi Lucy
      I walked into my local Spar shop last week without my mask on,an oversight soon put right,,,,should I be burned at the stake?

      At least I didn’t drive 30 miles to a local beauty spot during lockdown with the blessing of The First Lord of the Treasury.

      JC

      C P Scott,,,,,"Comment is Free,,but Facts are Sacred"
      "You are entitled to your opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.

      Comment


        #18
        Originally posted by jc, liverpool View Post
        Hi Lucy
        And she believes those problems can only be resolved with Scotland being an Independent country.

        You know the line by now......’Take back control...Regain Sovereignty’

        Whats good for the goose etc...

        Btw,,,I don’t want Scotland to be independent,,,,but I do believe the Scottish people have the right to determine their own future.
        And I read that every single poll,month after month shows that’s what the people want..

        The elections in May might tell us,,,a resounding victory for the SNP will lead to Nicola claiming she is right,,,,just like Boris used his victory to claim his right to take us out of the EU at any cost.

        JC


        Hi JC....As you well know, the SNP conduct polls on a regular basis (usually when there’s bad news about) Just over 1000 polled and they start ranting about 58% for Independence - it’s laughable. We determined our future in 2014 when we resoundingly said No. Sturgeon controls the media in Scotland, so she does have that advantage. I don’t watch STV and BBC Scotland news now, it’s so one sided. I’m not so sure about the May elections, she’s upset a lot of people in Scotland lately. The Salmond inquiry has also uncovered a few skeletons in her closet. Let’s see what happens when she gives evidence at the inquiry in a couple of weeks time. Her husband’s performance was less than convincing. I just wish we could all sing from the same hymn sheet for once - so much hatred and division in politics nowadays.

        Stay safe

        Comment


          #19
          Originally posted by lucy, sutton View Post

          Nicola Sturgeon is the first minister. She cannot blame anyone or anything else - the buck stops with her. She cannot even follow her own simple rules and ends up apologising for breaking the Covid rules when she has stood up and criticised everyone else. Time for Nicola Sturgeon to sort out Scotland's problems - she has devolved power but is not using it to sort out lots of issues.
          and we have many problems Lucy. Education, health (worst COVID figures in similar sized countries throughout Europe - drugs deaths the highest in Europe), Finance - Forbes still not distributing the COVID funding to small businesses. Ferry crisis, Bifab, Queensferry crossing, failed hospitals, the list goes on and on. Margaret Ferrier still not taken to task over her serious lack of judgement. SNP - The untouchables. As they want to be independent, god help us.

          Comment


            #20
            Originally posted by jc, liverpool View Post
            Hi all
            A sad day indeed.....
            A great day for democracy, which a great day for politics!

            My only sadness is that it took so long, with so much argument and so many people demanding a second vote, because the result did not go they way they wanted.
            See my cruise blog: HERE

            Comment


              #21
              Originally posted by mike, lanarkshire View Post

              and we have many problems Lucy. Education, health (worst COVID figures in similar sized countries throughout Europe - drugs deaths the highest in Europe), Finance - Forbes still not distributing the COVID funding to small businesses. Ferry crisis, Bifab, Queensferry crossing, failed hospitals, the list goes on and on. Margaret Ferrier still not taken to task over her serious lack of judgement. SNP - The untouchables. As they want to be independent, god help us.
              The only way Covid spreads is from person to person. There are many that do not wear masks, hold parties inside, flout the rules -that is why we have the bad Covid figures because there are many that do not take responsibility and put others at risk. The majority follow the rules with social distancing, wearing a mask and hand hygiene, it is the ones that don't that cause the high figures. Like the CMO said, the rules are there, but personal responsibility is also important and everyone should follow the rules. This country advises, encourages and for some it does not work. If we were a country of dictatorship we would have excellent Covid results as everyone would be too frightened to break the rules. Most of Europe are suffering like we are.

              There have been several reported cases of idiots holding indoor parties over Christmas/New Year and fines issued. How many of those fines will get paid? But they will expect hospital treatment if they need it for Covid through their stupid behaviour - something they should be charged for, in addition to the fine.

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by jc, liverpool View Post
                Hi all
                A sad day indeed.....



                JC
                Yes a sad day.

                Just one day into the new year and the name calling starts.

                Hardly unreasonable to question what the benefits of leaving the EU will be, when all we hear are soundbites and puffery.

                Comment


                  #23
                  Originally posted by andyn, Bucks View Post

                  I think 'remoaner' is now just an outdated jibe. We have all been leavers for a good while. Or maybe 'pragmatists' may be the right label
                  I changed jobs last year (captain foresight ) due to the the damage brexit would cause to my previous industry. I am now just making the best of a bad job (at least we avoided a no deal) as I cannot afford for myself or my children to wait 50 years to see the benefits.
                  No need to worry.

                  IDS has said there's no finer time to be 21, buccaneering and dominating the world.​​​​​​​

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by sandraggg, Newcastle View Post

                    Yes a sad day.

                    Just one day into the new year and the name calling starts.

                    Hardly unreasonable to question what the benefits of leaving the EU will be, when all we hear are soundbites and puffery.
                    Depends on what or who you read/listen to.

                    I'll bet there are thousands and thousands of very serious analysis papers and articles of the situation if you take the trouble to seek them out.

                    Bad news "sells" so that is what the media focus's on. A shock horror sound bite here or there with plenty of could, may, perhaps, possibly, U-turns sprinkled around with ministers words selectively quoted out of context is their stock in trade.

                    I saw this one this morning https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...exit-boom.html . From a very well respected journalist and seemed quite reasonable to me but make of it what you will depending on your political point of view!!!

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Originally posted by JohnR, Chippenham View Post
                      Depends on what or who you read/listen to.

                      I'll bet there are thousands and thousands of very serious analysis papers and articles of the situation if you take the trouble to seek them out.

                      Bad news "sells" so that is what the media focus's on. A shock horror sound bite here or there with plenty of could, may, perhaps, possibly, U-turns sprinkled around with ministers words selectively quoted out of context is their stock in trade.

                      I saw this one this morning https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...exit-boom.html . From a very well respected journalist and seemed quite reasonable to me but make of it what you will depending on your political point of view!!!
                      So the benefits are.....we avoided 'no deal' and the asia market could be exploited, rest of article is pandemic related.

                      So the challenge now is for our political leaders, working with business and workers, to equip us to take advantage of the huge opportunities that await to be grasped in a post-Covid, post-Brexit world.
                      Looking at their sometimes shambolic handling of the Covid crisis I cannot confess to being overly optimistic about their ability to seize the time.
                      But they are the same folks who urged us to go for Brexit in the first place.
                      They will never be forgiven — indeed they will go down in history in ignominy — if they fail us a second time.


                      Last edited by andyn, Bucks; 2nd January 2021, 11:04 AM.

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Originally posted by JohnR, Chippenham View Post
                        Depends on what or who you read/listen to.

                        I'll bet there are thousands and thousands of very serious analysis papers and articles of the situation if you take the trouble to seek them out.

                        Bad news "sells" so that is what the media focus's on. A shock horror sound bite here or there with plenty of could, may, perhaps, possibly, U-turns sprinkled around with ministers words selectively quoted out of context is their stock in trade.

                        I saw this one this morning https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...exit-boom.html . From a very well respected journalist and seemed quite reasonable to me but make of it what you will depending on your political point of view!!!
                        I'd rather our elected government sought them out, and presented the quantifiable and real benefits to us in a clear and understandable way.

                        Instead we have the likes of IDS talking about buccaneering and dominating the world.

                        Regarding the media... many mainstream papers have done their utmost to support Brexit, presenting Boris Johnson as some sort of miracle worker. He can have no complaints.

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Originally posted by JohnR, Chippenham View Post
                          Depends on what or who you read/listen to.

                          I'll bet there are thousands and thousands of very serious analysis papers and articles of the situation if you take the trouble to seek them out.

                          Bad news "sells" so that is what the media focus's on. A shock horror sound bite here or there with plenty of could, may, perhaps, possibly, U-turns sprinkled around with ministers words selectively quoted out of context is their stock in trade.

                          I saw this one this morning https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...exit-boom.html . From a very well respected journalist and seemed quite reasonable to me but make of it what you will depending on your political point of view!!!
                          Hi John
                          Andrew Neil must be one of those ‘armchair experts’ you always disparage.

                          I thought it was a weak article built on opinion without facts or context..

                          Eg,If Knightsbridge town centre can thrive so can every town centre in the country.
                          It completely ignores the facts that Knightsbridge is one of the richest areas in the country,,,,you pay £10 for a coffee and cake in a cafe.
                          Put that cafe in Widnes it would go bust in a day.

                          The article was full of misleading opinions like that,,,,,another one,,,the economy surged after the first lockdown,,,yes,for one month because people had saved money during the 3 month lockdown and wanted to get out a spend,,,,it didn’t last.

                          Another...Arcadia was brought down by the pandemic,,,,,wrong,it was brought down by bad management and the greed of the owner long before Covid hit.

                          It was interesting he said only Authoritarian countries and not Democratic countries can produce growth,,,,,yet he says the UK can achieve great growth in the future after Brexit.

                          Most reasonable people with a iPad mini could find inconsistencies in every paragraph.

                          The most notable words in the article were “Then it's reliant on BJ not screwing it up..........”......As if.

                          ps,As the old saying goes “Never trust a man (Andrew Neil) with a dodgy wig”

                          JC



                          C P Scott,,,,,"Comment is Free,,but Facts are Sacred"
                          "You are entitled to your opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Originally posted by sandraggg, Newcastle View Post

                            I'd rather our elected government sought them out, and presented the quantifiable and real benefits to us in a clear and understandable way.

                            Instead we have the likes of IDS talking about buccaneering and dominating the world.

                            Regarding the media... many mainstream papers have done their utmost to support Brexit, presenting Boris Johnson as some sort of miracle worker. He can have no complaints.
                            I am sure the government has been producing very clear papers on the subject for more than the last 4 years but such a complex subject cannot be summarised in a few words if you want more than sound bites.

                            Simply the case might be said to be: regain control of our borders, our laws, our money and our sovereignty and those will be the benefits. In other words freedom to do as we will. Just as wedding vows do not detail every issue that might arise in a marriage, for the last 54 years in my case, the general principles are there, ditto Brexit.

                            With regards "the likes of IDS talking about buccaneering . . . " were they quoted in total and in context or were they summarised with someone's "take" on them? I don't know, I haven't heard them. A modern day definition of buccaneering - adjective (especially in a business context) high-risk and adventurous. "the buccaneering nature of the oil-transport industry".

                            i imagine he wasn't thinking of sending pirate ships to the Caribbean. RCI and Carnival do that to relieve as much money as possible from unsuspecting citizens.

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Actually most of Duncan Smiths' words on Brexit are precisely that, just soundbites.He wrote a detailed article about why May's deal was a bad one,but most of the rest are short on detail and long on rhetoric,so much for an elder statesman...
                              His only detailed recent article suggests that the Coronavirus crisis in Greater London is exaggerated,but there doesn't appear to be a retraction.
                              Back to the topic, I am sad but we move on.I'm glad that we got a deal, but both sides negotiating teams hardly covered themselves in glory.
                              There was no time to properly scrutinise the deal 2000 pages long and both sides are responsible for that,there was no choice but to accept it​ .I sincerely hope that negotiations over financial markets go better and a sensible deal is reached,far more crucial to this country.

                              Comment


                                #30
                                We deserve to be properly informed of, and to understand, the good and bad of Brexit as it unfolds.

                                We're already seeing boasts of how a ban on pulse fishing came as a result from taking back control of our laws (being charitable, that is at best a misleading and incomplete claim).

                                I fear that, rather than being treated like adults, we are now in for four years of Brexit stories that are heavy on triumphalism and light on substance, as the Government moves towards 'protect the Tory party/get re-elected at all costs' mode.

                                Let's hear less about prospering mightily (unless backed up with evidence), or Williamson's 'we're a much better country than all the others', or Liz Truss with her 'ground breaking' soya sauce nonsense. This isn't a game, it's our children's future.

                                Comment


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