It is not always the children to blame

[annie, Glasgow]

Hi Annie
I fear that will happen here..
As I understand it the 22:00 rule is to deter groups of youngsters flouting distancing rules after drink.
This will be effective as the young ones don’t usually go out until 22:00 sometimes then until early hours of the morning,but usually they get tanked up before they go out..... maybe they will just meet up anyhow and get their fill in each other’s houses.

I feel the virus police coming out and stopping people on the streets or in taxis after say 22:30 asking why they are out.
If you can’t meet in others houses or pubs are shut at 22:00 why is someone out walking the streets at that time unless you are a burglar.

Do you think the Covid Act will be repealed at the end of the month? There is already an growing momentum by rightwing libertarian Tory MP that the powers in the Act go too far in curtailing freedoms.

ps,A few friends are planning a trip to Cork as soon as the Irish ‘wet bar’ rules are lifted.
JC

The only family anecdotes I can tell are from my nephew in Melbourne.

Failure in the hotel quarantine system resulted in a major spike of cases. The index case was a family of 4 returning from USA that resulted in over seven hundred cases daily when the average count was 20 or so. The people of Victoria were not allowed to visit other Australian states.

A hard lockdown was imposed and a curfew from 2000 to 0500. You had to have a permit to prove you worked in an essential industry etc and no travel further than 5 km from your home for food etc. As a sole householder I could nominate only 1 person for a support bubble. Only 1 person was allowed to shop for a household. This hard lockdown started 8 July ad it is hoped that the lockdown will ease at beginning of October. The case count is now less than 20 per day.

The penalties, by our standards, are harsh.

The Dublin and other data from other cities suggests that 'wet' pubs are not the issue.

I think it is time to consider another approach. I certainly don't think the Covid Act should be autimatically renewed - we know so much more, The Swedish model is probably not appropriate either as they are generally a younger and healthier society than the UK.

I wish they could give a positive message, wear masks, take Vit D and if appropriate lose a few pounds and your chances of having a severe reaction to covid 19 lessens. Who wants to be wearing masks next summer??

Annie

[annie, Glasgow]

Hi Del
But what does a ’full’ pub lockdown at 10pm mean?
Will I have to be out of the club by 10pm,,what then Last Orders.?
If it means bar shuts at 10pm how can I be out by 10pm.?
If it means bar shuts at 10pm can I order 3 pints and leave the club at 11:30?

I don’t have a clue,and neither does the club,,,,and I bet the government doesn’t either,,,they’ll just make it up as it goes along,,,the ‘whack ‘a’ mole policy.

JC

Pubs close and are emptied by 2200.

Annie

[andyn, Bucks]

Pubs close and are emptied by 2200.

Annie

Where did you get that?

No details on gov website
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/north-ea...l-restrictions

[annie, Glasgow]

Where did you get that?

Common sense and the Bolton guidelines??

Annie

[annie, Glasgow]

Hi Del
But what does a ’full’ pub lockdown at 10pm mean?
Will I have to be out of the club by 10pm,,what then Last Orders.?
If it means bar shuts at 10pm how can I be out by 10pm.?
If it means bar shuts at 10pm can I order 3 pints and leave the club at 11:30?

I don’t have a clue,and neither does the club,,,,and I bet the government doesn’t either,,,they’ll just make it up as it goes along,,,the ‘whack ‘a’ mole policy.

JC

Hi JC

Here are the Bolton guidelines which states that social clubs must close between 2200 and 0500:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/bolton-local-restrictions

I ass-um-med they would apply.

Annie

[andyn, Bucks]

Common sense and the Bolton guidelines??

Annie

If we are just making up our own version of what the rules mean, then I would say similar to how it used to be when pubs shut at 11.
i.e. last orders, bar shuts at 10pm and then you have 1/2 hour or so drinking up time.

But as JC says, currently it is open to any venue to adapt any version they want

[annie, Glasgow]

If we are just making up our own version of what the rules mean, then I would say similar to how it used to be when pubs shut at 11.
i.e. last orders, bar shuts at 10pm and then you have 1/2 hour or so drinking up time.

But as JC says, currently it is open to any venue to adapt any version they want

For the record, the data suggests that bars are not the issue.

Annie

[Mrs M]

Where did you get that?

No details on gov website
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/north-ea...l-restrictions

From same website

Local restrictions

Business and venue closures and restrictions


The following businesses and venues must remain closed nationally, including in the affected areas:

• nightclubs, dance halls, and discotheques
• sexual entertainment venues and hostess bars

Hospitality venues must only sell food and drink for consumption on the premises if it is served to customers sitting at a table. They may also sell food and drink for consumption off the premises. Hospitality venues include:

• restaurants, including hotel dining rooms and members’ clubs
• cafes (not including cafes or canteens at workplaces, hospitals, care homes, schools, prisons, establishments intended for the use of naval, military or air force purposes and for providing food or drink to the homeless)
• bars including bars in hotels or members’ clubs
• pubs
• social clubs
• casinos

The following businesses and venues must close from 22:00 to 05:00 each day (please see below an exemption for food and drink deliveries):

• the hospitality businesses and venues listed above
• restaurants, including hotel dining rooms and members’ clubs
• cafes (not including cafes or canteens at workplaces, hospitals, care homes, schools, prisons, establishments intended for the use of naval, military or air force purposes and for providing food or drink to the homeless)
• bars including bars in hotels or members’ clubs
• pubs
• bowling alleys
• social clubs
• cinemas
• theatres
• casinos
• amusement arcades or other indoor leisure centres or facilities
• funfairs (indoors or outdoors), theme parks and adventure parks and activities
• bingo halls
• concert halls

Businesses and venues can still sell food and drinks for consumption off the premises between the hours of 22:00 to 05:00 but only for delivery service in response to orders received:

I would have thought, ''must close'' means, must close.

[andyn, Bucks]

From same website

Local restrictions

Business and venue closures and restrictions


The following businesses and venues must remain closed nationally, including in the affected areas:

• nightclubs, dance halls, and discotheques
• sexual entertainment venues and hostess bars

Hospitality venues must only sell food and drink for consumption on the premises if it is served to customers sitting at a table. They may also sell food and drink for consumption off the premises. Hospitality venues include:

• restaurants, including hotel dining rooms and members’ clubs
• cafes (not including cafes or canteens at workplaces, hospitals, care homes, schools, prisons, establishments intended for the use of naval, military or air force purposes and for providing food or drink to the homeless)
• bars including bars in hotels or members’ clubs
• pubs
• social clubs
• casinos

The following businesses and venues must close from 22:00 to 05:00 each day (please see below an exemption for food and drink deliveries):

• the hospitality businesses and venues listed above
• restaurants, including hotel dining rooms and members’ clubs
• cafes (not including cafes or canteens at workplaces, hospitals, care homes, schools, prisons, establishments intended for the use of naval, military or air force purposes and for providing food or drink to the homeless)
• bars including bars in hotels or members’ clubs
• pubs
• bowling alleys
• social clubs
• cinemas
• theatres
• casinos
• amusement arcades or other indoor leisure centres or facilities
• funfairs (indoors or outdoors), theme parks and adventure parks and activities
• bingo halls
• concert halls

Businesses and venues can still sell food and drinks for consumption off the premises between the hours of 22:00 to 05:00 but only for delivery service in response to orders received:

I would have thought, ''must close'' means, must close.

Yes, and pubs used to (before 24hrs) shut at 11pm, what that meant was they stopped serving drinks at 11pm, so to me close at 10pm is when they stop serving

[Delboy, Essex]

Hi Del
But what does a ’full’ pub lockdown at 10pm mean?
Will I have to be out of the club by 10pm,,what then Last Orders.?
If it means bar shuts at 10pm how can I be out by 10pm.?
If it means bar shuts at 10pm can I order 3 pints and leave the club at 11:30?

I don’t have a clue,and neither does the club,,,,and I bet the government doesn’t either,,,they’ll just make it up as it goes along,,,the ‘whack ‘a’ mole policy.

JC

Hi JC

I don’t have a clue either about the 10 pm rule either, I think the next lockdown they will close pubs and clubs, they will be on full lockdown.

Re your school problem, our Son and DIL both work full time our DIL is a teacher but at a different school to which their 4 and 5 year old children go to, so both parents are unable to pick them up from school at the normal school closing time.

This used to be resolved as the School their children go to ran an after school tea time club at a cost, they provided a sandwich and kept the children occupied until parents can pick them up normally around about 5pm.

However since the schools went back after the summer break, one or two schools decided to do away with tea clubs including our two grandchildren’s school, which left our Son and DIL with a big problem which they did not want to burden us with. My wife already goes round to their house each week day for a couple of hours, to let their two German shepherd dogs out for a run in the garden,

Thankfully a local children’s nursery (a large nursery more like the size of a school) came to the rescue, they operate a mini bus service which goes round the schools and collects the tea club children and takes them back to the nursery and again gives them a tea and looks after them until parents come and pick them up. They also operate holiday clubs for those parents who work. Again all at a cost. Our daughters now 12 year old daughter used to attend this nursery pre school and holiday club, she loved it.

[Mrs M]

Yes, and pubs used to (before 24hrs) shut at 11pm, what that meant was they stopped serving drinks at 11pm, so to me close at 10pm is when they stop serving

That was then, this is 2020 and with a world wide health crisis ongoing. The licensing laws changed about fifteen years ago. Do old rules and regs have to be dredged up in order to deny their authority fifteen years later?

Close, shut, whatever the term. Drink up and close/ shut premises at said time.

[Garfield, Waterlooville]

Old skool rules...9.40..last orders...9.50 time at the bar....10.00pm everybody out.

Seems simple to me.

Garf

[andyn, Bucks]

That was then, this is 2020 and with a world wide health crisis ongoing. The licensing laws changed about fifteen years ago. Do old rules and regs have to be dredged up in order to deny their authority fifteen years later?

Close, shut, whatever the term. Drink up and close/ shut premises at said time.

Fine, but why not say what the rules are. It can be done in one sentence JC says they have phoned 4 different depts, So yet again no clear messaging means that venues can make their own interpretations of them

[annie, Glasgow]

Old skool rules...9.40..last orders...9.50 time at the bar....10.00pm everybody out.

Seems simple to me.

Garf

I was thinking along similar lines.

If they say pubs close at 2200 - common sense said to me everybody off the premises and the door locked at 2200.

Nearly 50 years ago the Scottish rule was we stopped serving at 2200 and there was 10 minutes drinking time.

I am content with some drinking time. However pubs don't appear to be the issue - it is probably the after pub parties??

Annie

[Mrs M]

Fine, but why not say what the rules are. It can be done in one sentence JC says they have phoned 4 different depts, So yet again no clear messaging means that venues can make their own interpretations of them

I have no idea why various people have no idea.

I go with the Plain English speak. To me, close means close, and that tells me what the rule is. I don't need any more help in deciphering the language.

Maybe some people are being disingenuous in claiming no knowledge as it's an easy cop out, or maybe, as I have found on many occasions just recently, some people who are supposed to know ''things'' [not government related], just have no idea and either pass me on to someone who does, or I have to phone someone else.