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It is not always the children to blame

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    #61
    Originally posted by annie, Glasgow View Post

    Well we have not been so lucky. Glasgow has had an incident similar to that of Bolton. As we say up here 'it does my heid in' ! If we don't get our act together, we will wearing masks next summer. Rant over.

    Annie
    I expect some reaction and sanctions from the Scottish Government soon in response to the rise in Scotland.

    LMM


    Lawnmowerman

    Comment


      #62
      Originally posted by annie, Glasgow View Post

      Well we have not been so lucky. Glasgow has had an incident similar to that of Bolton. As we say up here 'it does my heid in' ! If we don't get our act together, we will wearing masks next summer. Rant over.

      Annie
      Just announced fine now up to £10k for those repeatedly refusing to self isolate.It's enforcement that's the problem. I'm sick of stupid selfish people.

      Comment


        #63
        Originally posted by PeterM, Southwell View Post

        Just announced fine now up to £10k for those repeatedly refusing to self isolate.It's enforcement that's the problem. I'm sick of stupid selfish people.
        For all of us to defeat (or more likely live with) this virus, we need cooperation, trust and clear communication, everything that is lacking from this government. Penalties and threats are not the way forward, they penalise those who can least afford it the most.Those on zero hour contracts, low wages, with unscrupulous bosses,the poorest in our society will be the ones targetted. They will give false contact information and if they have symptoms will not get tested.
        Yet again, shambles upon shambles, where is the flattened curve, the squashed sombrero. We are reacting to an utterly predictable spike that it still massively below any imagined flat line. We may never get a vaccine so we lurch from one lockdown to another, with no idea what we are actually trying to achieve.
        Last edited by andyn, Bucks; 20th September 2020, 07:41 AM.

        Comment


          #64
          When I read about the fine [oh yes and will it be enforced???] I immediately thought of the large party like gatherings.

          Like Annie, I prefer the I of Man solution. A short prison term might bring it home to those who flout the rules big style. The thought of living with a prison record just might have an effect.

          Comment


            #65
            Last week I travelled on a Transpennine Express (TPE) train home from the North West.
            I travelled off-peak, sat in a window seat and wore my mask throughout - all as advised. There were frequent announcements throughout the journey, stating the rules.

            I expected the train guard to have a word with several passengers (all old enough to know better) who were not wearing masks, or had them round their chins, or were sitting in the aisle seats. I've been a frequent long-distance train traveller (business and leisure) for almost four decades and have always found assertive guards to be very effective at getting passengers to move awkwardly-stored luggage, get their feet off the seats, ... and so on.

            The guard twice travelled the length of the train checking tickets. Nothing was said to the rule-breakers, although he did tackle a passenger who had boarded without a ticket, and managed to collect fifty-odd quid in fares. (I guess revenue trumps public safety?)

            My train was reasonably busy, even off-peak, and I know from experience that that particular route is awful at commuter times. I would be extremely unhappy about having to travel on it twice daily and would be BEGGING my employer for home working. Sadly, not everyone can have the luxury of home working, and not everyone has a car so that they can simply 'avoid public transport.'

            Afterwards, TPE's explanation was that it is not their job to enforce the rules, as that is up to the transport police. I think I can count on one hand (maybe two!) the number of times I have seen the police on a long-distance train, as in my experience they board only when called by the train crew to sort out serious trouble.

            I don't blame the guard, as it appears he was following company policy. I can't blame the transport police, as they can't be on every train. Of course the individuals who ignored the rules were at fault. As far as TPE are concerned, I can't understand their approach, and I wonder what is behind it.

            However, most of all I'd like Grant Schapps to explain why rules are drawn up and announced with great 'problem sorted' fanfare, when it seems train companies can simply choose not to enforce them. Does he just cross his fingers and hope for the best? Does he read the social media posts from disgruntled passengers? Does he do a few incognito train journeys himself to find out what is happening in reality? Does he crack down on non-enforcement? Has he any idea what it is like for people who have no choice but to use trains and buses?

            Yes, we see a few high-profile stories about illegal raves and pub crawls and big fines. Meanwhile a blind eye is turned to bread-and-butter stuff such as public transport. On the one hand we're told to go back to work and get the economy moving... and yet those who do so in good faith are simply let down.

            Comment


              #66
              Public officers are dammed if they do and damned if they don't.

              Confront [nicely] a non complier, and they are targetting unseen physical problems or one of mental health.

              Would I want to be the one to ask for compliance without the safety of full riot gear at times? Not likely. Too many people are ready to ''ave a go''.

              We are becoming a nation of ''up yours mate, I'll do what I damned well please 'cos you can't make me''!

              Comment


                #67
                Originally posted by Mrs M View Post
                Public officers are dammed if they do and damned if they don't.
                Originally posted by Mrs M View Post

                Confront [nicely] a non complier, and they are targetting unseen physical problems or one of mental health.

                Would I want to be the one to ask for compliance without the safety of full riot gear at times? Not likely. Too many people are ready to ''ave a go''.

                We are becoming a nation of ''up yours mate, I'll do what I damned well please 'cos you can't make me''!
                Yes, I totally agree. And members of the public are too! My son was assaulted at a station last year after defending another passenger from abuse. The transport police were unable to apprehend the perpetrator. Will he be doing his public-spirited duty in future? Certainly not for a while.

                I'm not sure what the solution is, but if public transport is to be safe in the Covid-19 world, it needs to work better than this.

                Comment


                  #68
                  Originally posted by sandraggg, Newcastle View Post
                  [B]

                  Yes, I totally agree. And members of the public are too! My son was assaulted at a station last year after defending another passenger from abuse. The transport police were unable to apprehend the perpetrator. Will he be doing his public-spirited duty in future? Certainly not for a while.

                  I'm not sure what the solution is, but if public transport is to be safe in the Covid-19 world, it needs to work better than this.
                  The Southern Rail strikes last year were due to single driver trains, and the safety of trains with no guards. Looks like that may become a moot point and all trains may need to revert to guards.

                  Comment


                    #69
                    Originally posted by andyn, Bucks View Post

                    For all of us to defeat (or more likely live with) this virus, we need cooperation, trust and clear communication, everything that is lacking from this government. Penalties and threats are not the way forward, they penalise those who can least afford it the most.Those on zero hour contracts, low wages, with unscrupulous bosses,the poorest in our society will be the ones targetted. They will give false contact information and if they have symptoms will not get tested.
                    Yet again, shambles upon shambles, where is the flattened curve, the squashed sombrero. We are reacting to an utterly predictable spike that it still massively below any imagined flat line. We may never get a vaccine so we lurch from one lockdown to another, with no idea what we are actually trying to achieve.
                    This weekend I went to see my local semi-professional football team play.

                    It was ticket only, with all contact details of attendees diligently collected by the club. Strictly limited numbers - well below capacity. Despite it being outside, I wore a mask throughout. I used hand sanitiser, despite touching no surfaces. I stood several meters away from anyone else at every point. I did not use the toilets or sit on any seat in the grounds.

                    There is ZERO chance I have picked up the virus there... and yet if someone else attending tests positive, I'll get a call to self-isolate for 14 days. If I worked for an unreasonable employer, I'd be absolutely horrified.



                    Comment


                      #70
                      Originally posted by andyn, Bucks View Post

                      For all of us to defeat (or more likely live with) this virus, we need cooperation, trust and clear communication, everything that is lacking from this government. Penalties and threats are not the way forward, they penalise those who can least afford it the most.Those on zero hour contracts, low wages, with unscrupulous bosses,the poorest in our society will be the ones targetted. They will give false contact information and if they have symptoms will not get tested.
                      Yet again, shambles upon shambles, where is the flattened curve, the squashed sombrero. We are reacting to an utterly predictable spike that it still massively below any imagined flat line. We may never get a vaccine so we lurch from one lockdown to another, with no idea what we are actually trying to achieve.
                      Yep what he said.

                      I know of someone whose son was sent home from school because one child had tested positive in the whole year. Are that childs parents then expected to stay at home too. I'm sorry, not everyone, has pensions or jobs that pay them to be off every 5 minutes, or can work from home.

                      I think it's time to shift the way it's dealt with. The vast majority are hardly affected at all from the virus. So stick with the masks the distancing and hand washing, and those that are that worried, ill or vulnerable, stay at home!! .................................................. .......................Carol

                      Comment


                        #71
                        Originally posted by sandraggg, Newcastle View Post
                        Last week I travelled on a Transpennine Express (TPE) train home from the North West.
                        I travelled off-peak, sat in a window seat and wore my mask throughout - all as advised. There were frequent announcements throughout the journey, stating the rules.

                        I expected the train guard to have a word with several passengers (all old enough to know better) who were not wearing masks, or had them round their chins, or were sitting in the aisle seats. I've been a frequent long-distance train traveller (business and leisure) for almost four decades and have always found assertive guards to be very effective at getting passengers to move awkwardly-stored luggage, get their feet off the seats, ... and so on.

                        The guard twice travelled the length of the train checking tickets. Nothing was said to the rule-breakers, although he did tackle a passenger who had boarded without a ticket, and managed to collect fifty-odd quid in fares. (I guess revenue trumps public safety?)

                        My train was reasonably busy, even off-peak, and I know from experience that that particular route is awful at commuter times. I would be extremely unhappy about having to travel on it twice daily and would be BEGGING my employer for home working. Sadly, not everyone can have the luxury of home working, and not everyone has a car so that they can simply 'avoid public transport.'

                        Afterwards, TPE's explanation was that it is not their job to enforce the rules, as that is up to the transport police. I think I can count on one hand (maybe two!) the number of times I have seen the police on a long-distance train, as in my experience they board only when called by the train crew to sort out serious trouble.

                        I don't blame the guard, as it appears he was following company policy. I can't blame the transport police, as they can't be on every train. Of course the individuals who ignored the rules were at fault. As far as TPE are concerned, I can't understand their approach, and I wonder what is behind it.

                        However, most of all I'd like Grant Schapps to explain why rules are drawn up and announced with great 'problem sorted' fanfare, when it seems train companies can simply choose not to enforce them. Does he just cross his fingers and hope for the best? Does he read the social media posts from disgruntled passengers? Does he do a few incognito train journeys himself to find out what is happening in reality? Does he crack down on non-enforcement? Has he any idea what it is like for people who have no choice but to use trains and buses?

                        Yes, we see a few high-profile stories about illegal raves and pub crawls and big fines. Meanwhile a blind eye is turned to bread-and-butter stuff such as public transport. On the one hand we're told to go back to work and get the economy moving... and yet those who do so in good faith are simply let down.
                        My daughters friend went on a plane, she said they didn't have to wear a mask while eating or drinking, so that's what most passengers did. Ate and drank for the whole of the 4 hour flight!! .............................Carol

                        Comment


                          #72
                          Originally posted by carol, welwyn garden city View Post

                          My daughters friend went on a plane, she said they didn't have to wear a mask while eating or drinking, so that's what most passengers did. Ate and drank for the whole of the 4 hour flight!! .............................Carol
                          Yes, it was like that in the cinema when we went!
                          You don't need a mask when eating or drinking, so most people seemed to arrive with oversized popcorn tubs!

                          At least there was proper social distancing, though.

                          Comment


                            #73
                            Originally posted by carol, welwyn garden city View Post

                            Yep what he said.

                            I know of someone whose son was sent home from school because one child had tested positive in the whole year. Are that childs parents then expected to stay at home too. I'm sorry, not everyone, has pensions or jobs that pay them to be off every 5 minutes, or can work from home.

                            I think it's time to shift the way it's dealt with. The vast majority are hardly affected at all from the virus. So stick with the masks the distancing and hand washing, and those that are that worried, ill or vulnerable, stay at home!! .................................................. .......................Carol
                            Curious was the child's class the only class in that year?? Not impossible I know.

                            Annie

                            Comment


                              #74
                              Originally posted by annie, Glasgow View Post

                              Curious was the child's class the only class in that year?? Not impossible I know.

                              Annie
                              No 8 classes in the year, all sent home .................................................. ...Carol

                              Comment


                                #75
                                Originally posted by carol, welwyn garden city View Post

                                No 8 classes in the year, all sent home .................................................. ...Carol
                                Overreaction.

                                Annie

                                Comment


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