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Britain has Europe's HIGHEST corona death toll

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    Originally posted by Mrs M View Post

    I could reply in similar vein to many posts on this forum.

    I like to think I’ve managed to restrain myself.
    Thanks Ms M.

    To quote Socrates "When the debate is lost slander becomes the tool of the loser"

    or Jean-Jaques Rousseaux "Insults are the arguments employed by those whom are in the wrong"

    or Unknown "Insults are the last resort of insecure people with a crumbling position trying to appear confident"

    Comment


      Originally posted by cruiser, Larne View Post
      Given that most or all of Forum posters have their finger on the pulse, can someone explain to me how the Tracing App will work? I just can't get my head around it! If I take a journey on public transport and find a week later that I have contracted the virus how will the Tracing operate?
      Scotland may operate a different system because of black spots and a recognition that not everyone owns a smart phone:

      https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-52533449

      Also on the 1st NHS App, there is this development:
      https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...d-google-model

      Annie

      Comment


        Originally posted by JohnR, Chippenham View Post
        Thanks Ms M.

        To quote Socrates "When the debate is lost slander becomes the tool of the loser"

        or Jean-Jaques Rousseaux "Insults are the arguments employed by those whom are in the wrong"

        or Unknown "Insults are the last resort of insecure people with a crumbling position trying to appear confident"
        Yes, I see what you mean.............................

        'The most vitriol here comes from those lefty luvvie remoaners'
        Last edited by andyn, Bucks; 8th May 2020, 02:01 PM.

        Comment


          Originally posted by JohnR, Chippenham View Post
          Thanks Ms M.

          To quote Socrates "When the debate is lost slander becomes the tool of the loser"

          or Jean-Jaques Rousseaux "Insults are the arguments employed by those whom are in the wrong"

          or Unknown "Insults are the last resort of insecure people with a crumbling position trying to appear confident"
          Hi John
          Why don't you take your own quotes to heart.
          JC

          C P Scott,,,,,"Comment is Free,,but Facts are Sacred"
          "You are entitled to your opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.

          Comment


            Originally posted by JohnR, Chippenham View Post
            Thanks Ms M.

            To quote Socrates "When the debate is lost slander becomes the tool of the loser"

            or Jean-Jaques Rousseaux "Insults are the arguments employed by those whom are in the wrong"

            or Unknown "Insults are the last resort of insecure people with a crumbling position trying to appear confident"
            Hi John
            There is no evidence that Socrates ever said any such thing,,,it's an Internet invention.

            'Plato’s and Aristotle’s versions of Socrates were not interested in debates as something that could be won or lost, at least not by an individual, according to Christopher Rowe, Durham University classics and ancient history professor emeritus. In Socrates’ view, only truth could defeat anyone.'

            And it's only truth that interests myself.
            The truth of this pandemic and the incompetent role played by the government seems something you find so hard to accept.
            JC


            C P Scott,,,,,"Comment is Free,,but Facts are Sacred"
            "You are entitled to your opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.

            Comment


              It is the privacy issue that cause a lot of problems for just about any tracking system along with the issue that there will always be gaps that need filling by more traditional methods.

              We could just legislate access to the phone tracking data that already exist within the networks and use that as part of a contact event tracker

              Satnav apps use GPS and network data to get accurate locations and companies like google have masses of location data.

              There is already a lot of tracking going on if you have a phone.

              The main problem to be solved is stranger contacts, for work places, homes and tracked locations like hospitals(while no visiting) GP surgeries most people are known and the tracing is easy.

              you still have privacy issue like you can't say Joe was in the office on Monday and tested positive on Friday

              There are loads of articles and papers on tracking just go look for them, the better ones are not through the media that put their slant, find a research source and do your own thinking.
              some may still have a bias but tend to have better quality information.

              Same applies to other data there is loads out there and by the time it end up on a graph on te TV it has lost a lot of context

              eg. if you look at all UK deaths rather than covid deaths the excess for the time of year is a lot more than those dying from covid and a lot of those covid deaths were probably going to die from their comorbidity in a similar time frame.


              I have started looking through the ecdc site for anything interesting
              https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/covid-19-pandemic


              There is this report on resources need for contact tracing, all we got in the UK news was trying to recruit 18,000 tracers.
              https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/public...ment-resources


              here is an article from Feb
              https://publichealthmatters.blog.gov...ntact-tracing/

              Not sure why there was a failure to leverage council contact tracing resources in March rather than abandon tracing.

              BMJ April highlighted the issue.
              https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m163

              Comment


                Originally posted by JohnR, Chippenham View Post
                I accept the fact that we have the highest number of deaths in western Europe in total but also am sufficiently intelligent to understand a very large population in a very densely populated country is more likely to have a higher number of deaths than a low population in a sparsely populated country.

                Oman, a country I am familiar with, has an area about the same as the UK and a population of about 5,000,000 (including some 2,000,000 expatriates). With a population of about 7% of ours in the same space it is most likely the number of deaths will be less. Just as it is in the rural areas of the UK.

                I accept that there have been shortages of PPE in this country, as in every other country in the world including the mighty USA with it's vast resources. I still have yet to see any figures from anyone how short we are compared to others. I have yet to see how many the expert studies recommended we hold in reserve and how many we actually held in reserve and how long the recommended reserves would last at current usage rates. I also see the armchair experts continually banging on about the shortages but putting no numbers on their criticisms so their criticisms are meaningless.

                With regard to your comment about journalists I accept that they are in business to sell their products. Good news doesn't sell newspapers or TV ratings.
                South Korea is hardly a country with a small population, nor is it a country that has been foundwanting regarding the ability to provide necessary protective gear. The good news is that they have a strong leader who informed the population of what had to be done and then got on and did it with the result that virus deaths have been low.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by BinleyBilly, Binley, Coventry View Post

                  South Korea is hardly a country with a small population, nor is it a country that has been found wanting regarding the ability to provide necessary protective gear. The good news is that they have a strong leader who informed the population of what had to be done and then got on and did it with the result that virus deaths have been low.
                  Also has a main city Seoul that has a population around the same size as London with a density around 3 times that of London.

                  Area
                  605.21 km (233.67 sq mi)
                  Population(2020)
                  9,733,509
                  16,000/km (42,000/sq mi)

                  London
                  607 sq mi (1,572 km)

                  Population(2018)
                  8,908,081
                  14,670/sq mi (5,666/km)

                  Comment


                    I'm all for robust exchanges in the knowledge there will be polar opposite views on any discussion forum and this one is no different but to start resorting to ''grow up'' takes an interesting exchange to a new level and it's not one which sits well with me. Hence my comment.
                    Hi Mrs M
                    You seem to be lacking in criticism of the other person in this debate.

                    One posted a really childish post which the only reply could be 'Grow up'.
                    But if you think that warrants the description of an insult,,,,,,so be it.

                    In my 10+ years on this forum i have been the subject of many insults,,,mainly from the members of the opposite political persuasion,,,,i don't cry,,,,but i will fight fire with fire.

                    Yesterday i was insulted /belittled on my lack of grammar,,,,i laughed it off with a bit of banter.
                    The #1 rule of losing an argument is to criticise ones grammar ,,,,,,,as well as the first no no rule of forums,,,,,,,so be it,if thats how members feel fit to debate.

                    That was taking the exchange to a new level,,,,,what was your take Mrs M?,,,you praised Cruisedreams post but deemed to ignore her taking the debate to a new level.

                    That post of JohnR's was meant as an insult,,,,if you cant see that you shouldn't be on the political threads,,,,my reply to posts are mostly reactive,,,as it was in this case.
                    I will never insult any member without due cause.
                    JC
                    C P Scott,,,,,"Comment is Free,,but Facts are Sacred"
                    "You are entitled to your opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.

                    Comment


                      One for Topdeck to interpret : https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...5mZASGW1egVO8Q
                      Not as simple as we all think?

                      Comment


                        Yay, more good news a link that shows if you play with the numbers you can make it look like we only have the 2nd highest death toll

                        1st, 2nd, 3rd, who cares, we are not doing well and this government should recognise that, stop treating us like fools, and learn from its mistakes, we are still not testing, and can I say now I cannot see how the app can work without testing.............there you go, how about a bit of foresight armchairing.
                        Last edited by andyn, Bucks; 8th May 2020, 05:18 PM.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by jc, liverpool View Post
                          Hi Mrs M
                          You seem to be lacking in criticism of the other person in this debate.

                          One posted a really childish post which the only reply could be 'Grow up'.
                          But if you think that warrants the description of an insult,,,,,,so be it.

                          In my 10+ years on this forum i have been the subject of many insults,,,mainly from the members of the opposite political persuasion,,,,i don't cry,,,,but i will fight fire with fire.

                          Yesterday i was insulted /belittled on my lack of grammar,,,,i laughed it off with a bit of banter.
                          The #1 rule of losing an argument is to criticise ones grammar ,,,,,,,as well as the first no no rule of forums,,,,,,,so be it,if thats how members feel fit to debate.

                          That was taking the exchange to a new level,,,,,what was your take Mrs M?,,,you praised Cruisedreams post but deemed to ignore her taking the debate to a new level.

                          That post of JohnR's was meant as an insult,,,,if you cant see that you shouldn't be on the political threads,,,,my reply to posts are mostly reactive,,,as it was in this case.
                          I will never insult any member without due cause.
                          JC
                          I just added one word and it went unapproved. It wasn't that big a deal!!
                          JC

                          I don't comment on a post concerning grammar or spelling unless it's to make fun of my own, even one correcting mistakes apart from to generalise that grammar and spelling doesn't matter and so sorry, it didn't occur to me to comment. For that I apologise.

                          As to my picking on your ''grow up'', it was because you specifically directed it at a named member. One member has quoted a word I have used and used it in their own context and I could, I suppose take it up but I as it wasn't a direct reply to a post of mine, I just couldn't be bothered. Water off a duck's back, as it were.

                          We can infer insults, we can deride, generally, others' posts but when replying to a specific post and including the poster's name with an insult [and it was the ''grow up'', not the ******** and definitely not the tripe], is targeted at an individual and not an inference. That was the reason for my comment which, I wouldn't have expanded on at all had you not questioned why I replied to that ********, tripe and grow up post. Phew!

                          As to being on political threads, the last time I looked, this thread wasn't on the political thread sub forum. If it was, I would be an onlooker and not a participant.

                          Comment


                            At the risk of escalating things further (which is not my intention) I think JC was pointing out that the first personal insult was directed at a group of contributors and for that despite it being called out,there has been no apology.I have seen the treatment JC has received over the years and others with similar views.It has crossed the line of banter and gone over into abuse.I have also been abused in the past,I have never abused someone on here.
                            As I've said already today criticize the post not the poster. Also if it's clear you have offended,apologise.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by philhar, wallasey View Post
                              At the risk of escalating things further (which is not my intention) I think JC was pointing out that the first personal insult was directed at a group of contributors and for that despite it being called out,there has been no apology.I have seen the treatment JC has received over the years and others with similar views.It has crossed the line of banter and gone over into abuse.I have also been abused in the past,I have never abused someone on here.
                              As I've said already today criticize the post not the poster. Also if it's clear you have offended,apologise.
                              My post was unapproved, again.
                              • And I have seen it on the political threads which is why I won't enter them as I don't enjoy that kind of debate.
                                However, both sides are quite capable of insulting one another and give as good as they get. I often think folk must enjoy the sling shots and arrows approach.












                              Comment



                                Won't let me quote as ypur post is marked unapproved ( a regular issue fir all of us)but if you call out one side for doing it call out both.It may have been aimed at a group of posters but it was an insult and intended as one nonetheless.
                                It appeared on here was called out but no response.

                                Comment


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