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Is vaccination really going to plan?

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    #31
    Originally posted by annie, Glasgow View Post

    More data from Israel:

    At Rambam Health Centre in Israel - 91% of 1800 nurses and doctors showed a major presence of antibodies 21 days after the 1st shot.

    Source: FT article (behind paywall).

    Annie
    The early Israel reporting included people testing positive in the first 14 days most were in the first 7 days.


    Same with the phase 3 trial the efficacy of the 1st dose included people who were infected before they got the jab.
    If you only count those from around day 12 cases drop off

    Comment


      #32
      Originally posted by cruisewidower, pontefract View Post

      Hi Issy...I must admit that I admire your maths theory, I had not thought of it in that light, but some places have a reserve system so it must be possible. We may be unusual in the fact that we could (and would be willing to park outside the vaccination centre a full day if necessary(armed with flask and food of course), if it increased our chances and saved wasted vaccines.
      Instead of waisting a day visit the vaccination centre towards the end of the vaccination day, when they should be able to give you an answer if they are likely to have wasted vaccine.

      When I have mine 16:55pm they were offering the vaccine to people accompanying others to save wasting it. My wife is gutted she was not with me when I had mine. She is in her mid seventies hopefully in the next group.
      Delboy


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        #33
        Originally posted by cruisewidower, pontefract View Post

        Hi Issy...I must admit that I admire your maths theory, I had not thought of it in that light, but some places have a reserve system so it must be possible. We may be unusual in the fact that we could (and would be willing to park outside the vaccination centre a full day if necessary(armed with flask and food of course), if it increased our chances and saved wasted vaccines.
        In a centre with multiple lines you don't need to get them into the allocated slot.


        You make it dose driven.

        The vaccinators take people off a combined queue as soon as they are ready.

        As soon as you class someone as a no show you call your reserve in ASAP.

        When they arrive they join the queue and get fitted in ok that pushes people back a few mins but as soon as there is the next no show you catch up

        Worst case they all no show late in the day unlikely

        By driving it on the availability of a dose you don't build up a big surplus at the end of the day you fit them is as you go


        With a 15min safety wait and 5 chairs per vaccination line you can push people through the line every 3 mins if you have the people power

        Comment


          #34
          Originally posted by cruisewidower, pontefract View Post

          Hi Issy...I must admit that I admire your maths theory, I had not thought of it in that light, but some places have a reserve system so it must be possible. We may be unusual in the fact that we could (and would be willing to park outside the vaccination centre a full day if necessary(armed with flask and food of course), if it increased our chances and saved wasted vaccines.
          Hi Stan. Most people don’t think of the logistics of giving appointments, wasted appointments which then wastes everyone’s time and make waiting times even longer.

          The last 20 years of my nursing career was spent working in clinics. You’d be surprised, as I was at the beginning, how many people FTA then phone demanding an appointment for that day for eg ear irrigation (30 min appt) , leg ulcer dressings (30-60 min appt), blood test (10 min appt) then don’t bother turning up or phone to cancel but may appear hours late or as one patient I had turned up 5 days late but still think they should be seen! Mind you the older generation always attended on time every time.

          Some of the health centres where I worked were in the more deprived areas of Glasgow where the majority of patients had to rely on public transport so I’m guessing they wouldn’t want to wait all day outside in the cold/rain/snow on the off chance that they might be given the vaccine. I’d be happy to get a last minute phone call for vaccine but many won’t or can’t due to other commitments eg work (my daddy worked till he was 78), childcare, transport etc.

          I hate the thought of any waste never mind the covid vaccine but for any appointment and more importantly for vaccines The receptionist and vaccinators need patients details prior to their appointment and to make sure that they are eligible for the vaccine. If we didn’t have those details then everybody and their Aunty would/could turn up. If we don’t have the details and the authorisation to give the vaccine and something happened to the patient then we would be up in a court of law to face judgment then the NMC’s court to be struck off.
          don't want to work, just want to cruise.

          Comment


            #35
            Originally posted by Topdeck, London View Post

            In a centre with multiple lines you don't need to get them into the allocated slot.


            You make it dose driven.

            The vaccinators take people off a combined queue as soon as they are ready.

            As soon as you class someone as a no show you call your reserve in ASAP.

            When they arrive they join the queue and get fitted in ok that pushes people back a few mins but as soon as there is the next no show you catch up

            Worst case they all no show late in the day unlikely

            By driving it on the availability of a dose you don't build up a big surplus at the end of the day you fit them is as you go


            With a 15min safety wait and 5 chairs per vaccination line you can push people through the line every 3 mins if you have the people power
            Well said from a layman TC with no thoughts of the logistics or legalities. you cannot make a medical procedure dose driven that’s how mistakes are made.

            You have not factored in social distancing, confidentiality, form filling, questions asked and answered, someone reacting to vaccine, the amount of people who will turn up all at once if not given appointment times. As I’ve said before at the no appointment 60-64 year olds flu vaccine clinics I worked at 300-700 were turning up before 11am, moaning at having to wait in very very long queue for hours but had no thought for the staff who couldn’t get time to go to the toilet never mind have a break. We have To ask a patient, especially one you don’t know, questions eg name, DOB, address, consent, allergies, answer their questions then wait till they remove their umpteen layers, give injection the reapply all their umpteen layers all in 3 minutes............it’s not viable. If something goes wrong then it us nurses that will be charged and struck off.
            don't want to work, just want to cruise.

            Comment


              #36
              Covid: Gap between Pfizer vaccine doses should be halved, say doctors https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55777084




              In the letter to Prof Whitty, seen by the BBC, the British Medical Association (BMA) said it agreed that the vaccine should be rolled out "as quickly as possible" - but called for an urgent review and for the gap to be reduced.

              The doctors' union said the UK's strategy "has become increasingly isolated internationally" and "is proving evermore difficult to justify".

              "The absence of any international support for the UK's approach is a cause of deep concern and risks undermining public and the profession's trust in the vaccination programme," the letter said.

              Dr Chaand Nagpaul, chair of the BMA, said there were "growing concerns" that the vaccine could become less effective with doses 12 weeks apart.

              "Obviously the protection will not vanish after six weeks, but what we do not know is what level of protection will be offered [after that point]," he told BBC Breakfast.

              "We should not be extrapolating data when we don't have it."
              Last edited by Delboy, Essex; 23rd January 2021, 04:29 PM.
              Delboy


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              Comment


                #37
                Originally posted by Issyalex, Glasgow View Post

                Well said from a layman TC with no thoughts of the logistics or legalities. you cannot make a medical procedure dose driven that’s how mistakes are made.

                You have not factored in social distancing, confidentiality, form filling, questions asked and answered, someone reacting to vaccine, the amount of people who will turn up all at once if not given appointment times. As I’ve said before at the no appointment 60-64 year olds flu vaccine clinics I worked at 300-700 were turning up before 11am, moaning at having to wait in very very long queue for hours but had no thought for the staff who couldn’t get time to go to the toilet never mind have a break. We have To ask a patient, especially one you don’t know, questions eg name, DOB, address, consent, allergies, answer their questions then wait till they remove their umpteen layers, give injection the reapply all their umpteen layers all in 3 minutes............it’s not viable. If something goes wrong then it us nurses that will be charged and struck off.
                The covid vaccine process is currently dose driven while there are supply issues.

                How many doses a site is getting determines how many can get booked in, you don't abandon the appointment system you enhance it to make use of any no show to use up the doses.

                I did not say one person could do one every 3 mins I said if you have the people power, 5 output chairs need feeding at 1 every three minutes, if the process takes longer you need more people doing it.



                Seems a bit of a waste to have the skilled limited resource hanging about while people do dressing activities.


                It can be done, places are doing it successfully.





                Comment


                  #38
                  480k today..I'd say that was pretty successful..

                  Comment


                    #39
                    its been added to the dashboard, no breakdown by age yet.


                    https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/vaccinations

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Originally posted by Garfield, Waterlooville View Post
                      480k today..I'd say that was pretty successful..
                      Certainly is, unless you live somewhere where is just isn't happening, presumably due to inept local arrangements.

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Originally posted by Mrs M
                        My one and only contribution.

                        Never mind the elderly.

                        Vaccinate the teachers and school support staff for our children’s sake.
                        Problem is it's the elderly who are more likely to be admitted to hospital, so they need to be protected to protect the NHS. I would agree that teachers should be given some priority.

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Originally posted by PeterM, Southwell View Post

                          Problem is it's the elderly who are more likely to be admitted to hospital, so they need to be protected to protect the NHS. I would agree that teachers should be given some priority.
                          I tried to edit and couldn’t so I deleted and had another go.

                          We are continually told to protect the NHS. I think protecting the future of the youngsters is just as important.

                          There comes a point when prioritisation must take over and as far as I’m concerned, nothing beats the future and that means the children.

                          Front line NHS face to face staff are amazing but so are many sectors of society in their own right. People will die and will continue to die but if many of my elderly friends can avoid the virus by avoiding ''people'', then so can thousands of others.
                          Teachers, can’t if they want to be educators in the true sense of the word.

                          Get the schools back to classroom learning and the only way to do that is vaccinate school staff. THEN continue with the various groups.

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Originally posted by PeterM, Southwell View Post

                            Certainly is, unless you live somewhere where is just isn't happening, presumably due to inept local arrangements.
                            The table in this link shows Nottinghamshire 2nd bottom:

                            COVID-19: London and East of England lag behind rest of nation in vaccinations, figures show | UK News | Sky News

                            Annie

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Originally posted by Garfield, Waterlooville View Post
                              480k today..I'd say that was pretty successful..
                              A good day, we need to hit over 400,000 every day to hit the promised 15th Feb. With already stories of supply issues and the original manufacturing quotes of 2 million a week (and the weather) I can't see that date being achievable.
                              Last edited by andyn, Bucks; 23rd January 2021, 09:35 PM.

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Originally posted by PeterM, Southwell View Post

                                Problem is it's the elderly who are more likely to be admitted to hospital, so they need to be protected to protect the NHS. I would agree that teachers should be given some priority.

                                The latest data has ICU/HDU getting filled by the 50-70 age group they are down the list for vaccinations.


                                How does protecting teachers make schools safe.



                                Comment


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