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"Mutiny on Queen Victoria"

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    "Mutiny on Queen Victoria"

    Mutiny on Queen Victoria:
    SEBASTIAN SHAKESPEARE: Brexit-bashing Baroness Wheatcroft sparks cruise ship mutiny* | Daily Mail Online
    She is not the only unelected member of the House of Lords speaking about overturning the will of the people. What don't they understand about democracy?

    #2
    I had an email telling me about this.

    What a stupid woman. I bet she will never work as a lecturer on a cruise ship again. As a lecturer, one of the golden rules is not to show political bias.

    Having attended a few lectures by Edwina Currie whilst on cruises; she always begins by telling her audience that she is there to entertain and she certainly did so brilliantly. She would occasionally give an opinion on a political issue and indeed mentioned that she would be voting to REMAIN but she was quick to follow up with but 'it's up to you' to vote what you think is best.
    Jill

    Comment


      #3
      Ooops!

      I would have been annoyed with that lecture too, even if I had agreed with her. What right have unelected 'peers' to try and overturn a national vote!!!!

      We boarded QV on the day of 'the vote'. The following day was weird. Having had a postal vote, I'd pushed the whole process to the back of my mind and to be honest, was astonished when we turned on the television [we're news addicts first thing in the morning] to hear the result.

      We don't usually talk about politics at any dinner table, we listen, but it was impossible this time. It wasn't mentioned at dinner on the Thursday. We were all feeling our way but Friday evening was a totally different ball game. The whole table [table for eight] was in the most amazing mood [we had a drink or three that night] and I would say, most of the passengers I came across had huge smiles, no, not smiles, grins, on their faces.

      Of course it could have been because they were just so happy to be on my favourite ship...

      Comment


        #4
        This was a poorly considered topic, especially given the setting. Statistically a much higher than average percentage of passengers will have been pro-Brexit. I can't imagine she didn't realise what a ridiculously controversial thing that would be to say.
        Duncan S

        See my blog!

        Comment


          #5
          She is not the only unelected member of the House of Lords speaking about overturning the will of the people. What don't they understand about democracy?
          Hi John
          I must question your understanding of Democracy.
          She can't overturn the will of the people,,,only the will of the people can do that,,,,although the Tories have done just that in the past history.
          There is a debate on 5th Sept on a vote for a 2nd referendum after 4.1m people signed a petition for one.That's Democracy.
          You seem to want to deny someone an opinion on the subject.
          History is littered with bad political decisions being overturned by the will of the people.

          If the Tories call a snap election,and the Labour party campaigns on a 2nd referendum vote,,,and wins,,,,then,democratically that manifesto overrules the recent result.

          Does your Democracy not include Baronesses,MP's,Lords,,,,,or does it only let Brexiters have a voice.

          I bet there are members on here who voted against joining the EU in 1973,,,,who have spent the last 43yrs trying to overturn the will of those people who voted IN all those years ago....The best 43 yrs of our lives.
          JC
          C P Scott,,,,,"Comment is Free,,but Facts are Sacred"
          "You are entitled to your opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by jc, liverpool View Post
            Hi John
            I must question your understanding of Democracy.
            She can't overturn the will of the people,,,only the will of the people can do that,,,,although the Tories have done just that in the past history.
            There is a debate on 5th Sept on a vote for a 2nd referendum after 4.1m people signed a petition for one.That's Democracy.
            You seem to want to deny someone an opinion on the subject.
            History is littered with bad political decisions being overturned by the will of the people.

            If the Tories call a snap election,and the Labour party campaigns on a 2nd referendum vote,,,and wins,,,,then,democratically that manifesto overrules the recent result.

            Does your Democracy not include Baronesses,MP's,Lords,,,,,or does it only let Brexiters have a voice.

            I bet there are members on here who voted against joining the EU in 1973,,,,who have spent the last 43yrs trying to overturn the will of those people who voted IN all those years ago....The best 43 yrs of our lives.
            JC
            Can Tories call a snap election? I though a fixed term agreement was reached and thus the terms under which one can be called is now very restricted.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by jc, liverpool View Post
              Hi John
              I must question your understanding of Democracy.
              She can't overturn the will of the people,,,only the will of the people can do that,,,,although the Tories have done just that in the past history.
              There is a debate on 5th Sept on a vote for a 2nd referendum after 4.1m people signed a petition for one.That's Democracy.
              You seem to want to deny someone an opinion on the subject.
              History is littered with bad political decisions being overturned by the will of the people.

              If the Tories call a snap election,and the Labour party campaigns on a 2nd referendum vote,,,and wins,,,,then,democratically that manifesto overrules the recent result.

              Does your Democracy not include Baronesses,MP's,Lords,,,,,or does it only let Brexiters have a voice.

              I bet there are members on here who voted against joining the EU in 1973,,,,who have spent the last 43yrs trying to overturn the will of those people who voted IN all those years ago....The best 43 yrs of our lives.
              JC
              Hi jc.
              Most accepted the decision and just got on and lived their lives to the best of their ability.
              Maybe those who opposed Brexit might like to try to do the same.

              Regards
              Garfield

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Garfield, Waterlooville View Post
                Hi jc.
                Most accepted the decision and just got on and lived their lives to the best of their ability.
                Maybe those who opposed Brexit might like to try to do the same.

                Regards
                Garfield
                Hi Garf
                See,,,you are doing it!!!
                Why should i?
                There have been injustices carried out for centuries,,,,if everyone said,,'Oh well lets just get on with it',,,we would still be putting kids up chimneys.

                Do you honestly believe if the result was the other way,,,the Brexiters in the shape of the Kippers would have said 'Oh well' and walked away.
                Opposition is necessary in democracy.....Democracy advocates all voices to be heard.
                Don't forget the 13m remain voices in all this.
                By your reasoning,they should become silent,,,,,,,i don't agree.

                If Brexiters are convinced of their arguments,,,they shouldn't be afraid to defend them,not to tell the opposites to,in effect,shut up and go away.

                Those Cunarders who wanted to lynch the Baroness would have been better to stay and debate with her.
                JC
                C P Scott,,,,,"Comment is Free,,but Facts are Sacred"
                "You are entitled to your opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Mrs M View Post
                  Can Tories call a snap election? I though a fixed term agreement was reached and thus the terms under which one can be called is now very restricted.
                  Hi Mrs M
                  The governing party would need 2/3 of the votes in parliament to call an election under the Fixed Term rules.
                  They are not going to do that until they have 'gerrymandered' the constituency boundaries in their favour.

                  JC
                  C P Scott,,,,,"Comment is Free,,but Facts are Sacred"
                  "You are entitled to your opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by jc, liverpool View Post
                    Hi Garf
                    See,,,you are doing it!!!
                    Why should i?
                    There have been injustices carried out for centuries,,,,if everyone said,,'Oh well lets just get on with it',,,we would still be putting kids up chimneys.

                    Do you honestly believe if the result was the other way,,,the Brexiters in the shape of the Kippers would have said 'Oh well' and walked away.
                    Opposition is necessary in democracy.....Democracy advocates all voices to be heard.
                    Don't forget the 13m remain voices in all this.
                    By your reasoning,they should become silent,,,,,,,i don't agree.

                    If Brexiters are convinced of their arguments,,,they shouldn't be afraid to defend them,not to tell the opposites to,in effect,shut up and go away.

                    Those Cunarders who wanted to lynch the Baroness would have been better to stay and debate with her.
                    JC
                    Hi jc
                    Debate it by all means that is your democratic right.
                    But it's also the democratic right of those that voted for Brexit to expect those elected to represent them to carry out the wishes of the majority.
                    And with that I'll bow out..
                    Theresa has already said there will be no second vote.
                    I'm off to footie soon so for the next few days let's focus on those lucky people who will be writing a blog for the forum.

                    Regard
                    Garfield

                    p.s.
                    I had a read of this

                    https://www.theguardian.com/business...pe-is-the-euro

                    jc reads the Guardian does he not?
                    Last edited by Garfield, Waterlooville; 3rd September 2016, 11:43 AM.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by jc, liverpool View Post
                      Hi John
                      I must question your understanding of Democracy.
                      She can't overturn the will of the people,,,only the will of the people can do that,,,,although the Tories have done just that in the past history.
                      There is a debate on 5th Sept on a vote for a 2nd referendum after 4.1m people signed a petition for one.That's Democracy.
                      You seem to want to deny someone an opinion on the subject.
                      History is littered with bad political decisions being overturned by the will of the people.

                      If the Tories call a snap election,and the Labour party campaigns on a 2nd referendum vote,,,and wins,,,,then,democratically that manifesto overrules the recent result.

                      Does your Democracy not include Baronesses,MP's,Lords,,,,,or does it only let Brexiters have a voice.

                      I bet there are members on here who voted against joining the EU in 1973,,,,who have spent the last 43yrs trying to overturn the will of those people who voted IN all those years ago....The best 43 yrs of our lives.
                      JC
                      I voted "in" in 73, and i wish i hadnt, 43 years of silly rules, loss of power, and the giving of jobs to EU citizens when they should be done by UK people. The way things are looking today, if we had a second vote, "in" would win again. Why dont the remainers just gently give in and allow democracy to rule? I guess if we did vote "in" on a second vote, the "outs" would find a way to have a third vote, etc .................... Brexit means Brexit i heard someone say?
                      Time to get out and leave the sleasy, wasteful, bloated, clueless ones in Brussels (un-elected at that) to their own devices, and we can go and make our fortune elsewhere. And as a farewell gift, they can have that daft woman who lectured on Cunard.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by jc, liverpool View Post
                        Hi John
                        I must question your understanding of Democracy.
                        She can't overturn the will of the people,,,only the will of the people can do that,,,,although the Tories have done just that in the past history.
                        There is a debate on 5th Sept on a vote for a 2nd referendum after 4.1m people signed a petition for one.That's Democracy.
                        You seem to want to deny someone an opinion on the subject.
                        History is littered with bad political decisions being overturned by the will of the people.

                        If the Tories call a snap election,and the Labour party campaigns on a 2nd referendum vote,,,and wins,,,,then,democratically that manifesto overrules the recent result.

                        Does your Democracy not include Baronesses,MP's,Lords,,,,,or does it only let Brexiters have a voice.

                        I bet there are members on here who voted against joining the EU in 1973,,,,who have spent the last 43yrs trying to overturn the will of those people who voted IN all those years ago....The best 43 yrs of our lives.
                        JC
                        Hi JC,
                        My understanding of democracy is that we do not keep having referendums on a matter until the people get the "right" answer. Once is enough and we all abide by the result.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by JohnR, Chippenham View Post
                          Hi JC,
                          My understanding of democracy is that we do not keep having referendums on a matter until the people get the "right" answer. Once is enough and we all abide by the result.
                          Hi John
                          My understanding of living in a Parliamentary Democracy is we don't have Referendums.
                          All referendums do is legitimise protest groups (people wanted to kick the governmen).Referendums are a demagogue’s dream. They allow popularist politicians to sidestep complex issues and concentrate on scaremongering,,,,which happened.

                          What would happen in a true democracy now, would be,,,the government to set out what it wants from the EU in terms of negotiations,,,,in the Single Market,,,or out,,,,a position on foreign workers (how many or none)
                          Only after all conditions are spelled out,then the population of the UK can be asked,,are you in favour or not.

                          We are not being given that information or option,,,,whats democratic in that?

                          What does 'Brexit means Brexit' mean?

                          JC
                          Last edited by jc, liverpool; 3rd September 2016, 12:17 PM.
                          C P Scott,,,,,"Comment is Free,,but Facts are Sacred"
                          "You are entitled to your opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            The essential difference this time was that people did not blindly vote on party lines - they voted on the question (or to stick two fingers up to politicians and the political system).
                            If you can read this - thank a teacher
                            If you are reading this in English - thank a soldier

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by jc, liverpool View Post
                              Hi John
                              My understanding of living in a Parliamentary Democracy is we don't have Referendums.
                              All referendums do is legitimise protest groups (people wanted to kick the governmen).Referendums are a demagogue’s dream. They allow popularist politicians to sidestep complex issues and concentrate on scaremongering,,,,which happened.

                              What would happen in a true democracy now, would be,,,the government to set out what it wants from the EU in terms of negotiations,,,,in the Single Market,,,or out,,,,a position on foreign workers (how many or none)
                              Only after all conditions are spelled out,then the population of the UK can be asked,,are you in favour or not.

                              We are not being given that information or option,,,,whats democratic in that?

                              What does 'Brexit means Brexit' mean?

                              JC

                              I think Brexit means Brexit means something like bye bye Brussels. I would like to think so.

                              Comment


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