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  1. #31
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
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    11
    I was on P&O's Oceana to the Canaries last October and was delighted to see disabled people were catered for. I did hear that some people were inconsiderate in making room for 'wheeled visitors' in the lifts. After all, they can't use the stairs.


  2. #32
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
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    Quote QUOTE: View Post
    You see a lot of people on the pavements of South London now who look as if their only disability is being too fat to walk any distance! A mobility scooter (obesity buggy!) is the last thing they need.
    A fair bit of generalisation here Nick. Have you not thought that the users of the scooters may be obese because they can't exercise, for whatever reason? Obesity is a disease in itself and no, it is not always easy to "just eat less".

    I used to walk to and from work, a journey of 1.25 miles each way and used to horse ride three times a week. Last year I developed bursitis in both knees (housemaids' knee in less PC times). I can't ride at all now and can only walk short distances without severe discomfort. I have gained a stone in a year. I may need a scooter myself eventually and I hope for more tolerance than you display. Judith


  3. #33
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    686
    I'm not talking about people who have put a stone on Judith, but people who are seriously obese. Nothing is anyone's fault these days is it? Eberyone is a victim. People are forced to sit at home in front of the TV all day, eating unhealthy food. Thank goodness nanny state now provides the obesity buggies. These poor unfortunates can now get out of the house and take a trip to McDonalds.


  4. #34
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
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    92
    Quote QUOTE: View Post

    In response to those critics who say that wheelchair users, particularly powered scooters, creep silently upon them at high speed and scant regard, I would say that the maximum speed attainable (by scooters) is governed, and in the case of self-propelled, or assisted wheelchairs, about 5 mph is round about average, unless you are a disabled olympic gold medal winner of that event like Dame Kelly Holmes!

    Cheers
    Gordon (Rhys-Williams)
    Some go a lot faster than 5mph. Few people walk at speeds in excess of 3mph and when strolling around a ship it is usually slower. I go on a ship to relax not to be constantly looking behind me for approaching scooters.

    Like most issues on there forums neither side will recognise the others point of view. Let's see who shows the most common sense the "Disability Rights" brigade or those concerned with the other modern passion of "Health and Safety".

    All the replys of "think yourself lucky" are not logical arguments in responce to a safety issue.


  5. #35
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    913
    Quote QUOTE: View Post
    Hi, we always book a balcony cabin and the wheelchair folds and is out of the way, when we are on deck, again the chair is folded and once again out of the way. After years of being able to do what we want, walk, climb, long walks and being very active and independant these last few months have been very hard and upsetting, I hope it is a long while before my husband has to use the scooter for a cruise, so I guess I will just have to hope and pray that I can keep fit. I would like to say that the staff who book shore excursions are kind and make sure that they are wheelchair friendly. That as I said before was with Celebrity, will find out what it is like on Brilliance of the Seas and on Azura. Will as usual write a review.
    Dear Hazel V

    Life can be tough and sometimes relenting and if, like me, you are driven to remarks like 'whatever next' or 'what have I done to deserve this' can often induce a feeling of defeat and wanting to give up, but I hope that you will have the strength not to.

    It is said that all things come in three's, but again in my case someone got their sums wrong.

    Despite my disabilities, some the result of previous post surgery, such as impaired sense of balance, which is another of those disabilities not easily recognised unless, (for the benefit of the sceptics) you physically display total disability and, being the only gesture that would convince such people of your entitlement to a wheelchair, (assisted) or, if able, a powered scooter to reach local shops and post office etc.

    Our local ASDA store provide powered scooters, complete with shopping basket, free for the convenience of their disabled customers, they also provide disabled car parking near the store entrance - but that's another story of selfish mis-use by the hale and hearty, invariably driving expensive cars - you can tell them a mile off without looking for a blue badge displayed,which of course is absent.

    My wife, upon whom I depend to push me around (well she's been doing that consistently - former nurse, says it all) and without whom I would barely subsist, reminds me 'how lucky I am' and that I could be 'a lot worse off' - she means physically or mentally worse off, to which I have to agree.

    I am not 'worse off' however as regards the care and forebearance of both her and our son, who lives with us, who is also a great support to me.

    I feel sure that your husband is just as appreciative of and dependant on yourself, as I am on my family, but this situation, in both our cases, depends on the able-bodied partner remaining fit and able.

    May I express my heartfelt sympathy with your (both) situation and understand how trying and difficult it can be at times, especially when you read ignorant, selfish and ill-informed views expressed by those who have no conception of what it means to be disabled in a world dominated by non-disabled fellow citizens yet upon whom we depend for consideration and sometimes, assistance.

    May I wish you both well for the future, whatever it holds.

    Gordon Rhys-Williams


  6. #36
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
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    913
    Quote QUOTE: View Post
    Some go a lot faster than 5mph. Few people walk at speeds in excess of 3mph and when strolling around a ship it is usually slower. I go on a ship to relax not to be constantly looking behind me for approaching scooters.

    Like most issues on there forums neither side will recognise the others point of view. Let's see who shows the most common sense the "Disability Rights" brigade or those concerned with the other modern passion of "Health and Safety".

    All the replys of "think yourself lucky" are not logical arguments in responce to a safety issue.
    Your biased comments are really not worth replying to since we can all understand where YOU are coming from, which is revealed in your barely concealed insulting and discriminatory references such as, 'disability rights brigade' and 'health and safety brigade.'

    The Disability Rights and Discrimination Rights legislation is aimed at people of your like and for the protection of groups of people likely to be discriminated against by those expressing biased views such as yours.

    If its such an imposition to keep looking over your shoulder for hurtling scooters, driven by disabled boy (or girl) racers, with total disregard for those impeding their passage - then the only option for you is to buy a yacht, that would afford you total privacy, excuse you for having to share any of your space with those less fortunate than you and, equally they would be rid of you, your whingeing and demeaning attitude.

    Your ultimate paragraph which confusingly appears to associate 'think yourself lucky' with safety issues is as unintelligible as it is confusing.

    I am inclined to think that 'think yourself lucky' applies to yourself, in that during an emergeny (abandon ship variety) this event would kick-in the self preservation mode within you and see you rushing for the life-boats with the same disregard that you have for other (disabled) passengers.

    Has it never occurred to you, and those holding similar views, that since the cruise company and its ship's captains, are responsible for the health and safety of the many thousand souls who travel with them, able-bodied and disabled, have most assuredly taken into account the 'mix' of passengers which, in the case of those with a disability, have calculated how many they can 'safely' accommodate in, for one thing, by the number of disabled cabins available.

    One further comment, passengers having a disability, are required to 'register themselves,' on boarding, as requiring assistance in the event of an emergency, desirably by a hefty pair of matelots.

    This means that, in the unlikely event of a major emergency, you would have no need to trample underfoot, those disabled fellow-passengers, for whom you have scvant regard, who may be crawling along the floor towards safety, otherwise hindering your flight of self-preservation and disregard of others.

    As I said, not much point commenting on your crass statement, but it would be remiss of me to let your ill-informed comments pass by unchallenged.

    Without salutation
    Gordon Rhys-Williams


  7. #37
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    66
    I had the experience recently of being temporarily disabled while on a cruise on P&O's Oceana. I broke my ankle last November and had the plaster removed at the beginning of January and were due on the cruise at the end of January. I was told by my consultant that I could go, sorted out the insurance and we went. I had been walking around the house with a stick but it stupidly did not occur to me that I would find the long distances on the ship too taxing. I should have taken a wheelchair.

    The airport was no problem as we had extremely efficient airport assistance. We stayed the night at the Sofitel hotel at Gatwick and there was no way I would have been able to walk as far as check-in let along all the way to Gate 111 - miles from the Departure lounge.

    When we go to the ship I soon realised that I was not going to be able to walk the length of the ship without considerable discomfort. The Medical centre has wheelchairs but understandably they were reluctant to let them out other than for medical emergencies. They were kind enough to let us borrow one for a couple of evenings when we had been invited to various things and it made it comfortable for me to get to the other end of the ship. The staff on the ship were fantastic. Both in the main restaurant and in Cafe Jardin, where we usually had breakfast staff were so considerate. In Cafe Jardin they always took care to give us a table near the food selection so I didn't have too far to walk. Other passengers were kind too, when they saw my stick they let me in or out of the lift first.

    I realised for the first time how difficult some people must find it to get around a ship when they are permanently disabled. I'm lucky, I'm walking more easily now and only yesterday drove the car for the first time since the beginning of November. My cruise on Oceana was enjoyable but it would have been much better if I had taken a wheelchair. I would have liked to think that other passengers would have been considerate. There was one passenger who was severely disabled on board and there was no way he could have ever considered cruising without a wheelchair - he could not have walked. If, in the future, I am unfortunate to become disabled I would not have the slightest hesitation to take a wheelchair on a cruise. I hope people who say that wheelchairs and scooters should not be allowed never have to use one themselves.


  8. #38
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    51
    DVLA specs.....

    Class 1
    Manual wheelchairs, i.e. self-propelled or attendant propelled, not electrically propelled. These are not required to be registered with DVLA.

    Class 2
    Powered wheelchairs and scooters intended for footway use only with a maximum speed of 4mph and an unladen weight not exceeding 113.4kgs. These are not required to be registered with DVLA.

    Class 3
    Mechanically propelled invalid carriages that are constructed or adapted to be capable of exceeding a speed of 4mph but incapable of exceeding a speed of 8mph on the level under its own power (generally powered wheelchairs and other outdoor vehicles including scooters intended for use on roads/highways). They must be fitted with a device capable of limiting the maximum speed to 4mph for use when travelling on footways. The unladen weight must not exceed 150kgs. These are required to be registered with DVLA.

    Our local disabilty shops sells 8mph ones to anybody!

    How many Class 3 are being used on board, with the speed limiter off?

    Last edited by Hudson, South Lincs; 11th March 2010 at 06:49 PM. Reason: missed 'sells' out

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    92
    Quote: Your ultimate paragraph which confusingly appears to associate 'think yourself lucky' with safety issues is as unintelligible as it is confusing.

    It's not me who has assosciated "think your self lucky" with this issue but those who use the phrase to justify their responce.

    I have never written that there should be no disabled people on the ships, why would I my own son is disabled! I worked for a club for disabled people for 30 years, 20 as leader and have many miles of wheelchair pushing under my belt but like most of your posting that is not relavent to skooters on ships. I still maintain that skooters on ships are a menace for the same reasons as my initial post on this topic.

    How do you suggest that I (and all the other passengers) fix a rear view mirrors to my shoulders?

    RoyA


  10. #40
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    913
    Quote QUOTE: View Post
    Quote: Your ultimate paragraph which confusingly appears to associate 'think yourself lucky' with safety issues is as unintelligible as it is confusing.

    It's not me who has assosciated "think your self lucky" with this issue but those who use the phrase to justify their responce.

    I have never written that there should be no disabled people on the ships, why would I my own son is disabled! I worked for a club for disabled people for 30 years, 20 as leader and have many miles of wheelchair pushing under my belt but like most of your posting that is not relavent to skooters on ships. I still maintain that skooters on ships are a menace for the same reasons as my initial post on this topic.

    How do you suggest that I (and all the other passengers) fix a rear view mirrors to my shoulders?

    RoyA
    By using the same common sense as when perambulating pavements or other pedestrianised areas.

    Approaching mobility scooters (correction of skooters) do so when oncoming towards your front as well as your back, as do other pedestrians so its 50/50 on that score, unless you expect everyone else to give way to you.

    Secondly, you tar ALL scooter drivers with the same brush as being irrational, incompetent and all hell-bent on running you down at 4 mph.

    It probably would be better if you displayed the same common courtesy, tolerance, forebearance and consideration for others, especially those disadvantaged by disability, as you would expect yourself.

    The problem and issue under discussion is not the making of the, so-called 'disability brigade' (as you discriminate) and describe it, the problem is people who hold selfish and biased views and who are lacking in tolerance and consideration for others.

    Thankfully the majority DO have consideration for others, especially the less fortunate, and the term, 'thank yourself lucky' IS relevant
    to the issue and if, or when, you find yourself in such a condition yourself, you will quickly come to appreciate the benefit of tolerance and consideration.

    There is no satisfactory answer to your problem of intolerance, except to ban ALL disabled people from cruise vessels - is that what you wish?

    A similar desire to discriminate against certain specially 'selected' groups of people, as a 'final solution' by a deranged intolerant dictator, whose views and policies were the only ones allowed, took a world war, millions of lives and six years of conflict to resolve.

    Other such megalomaniacs, of his like, continue to practice a policy of discrimination and 'selection' as he, with similar consequences and as yet, unresolved and having others 'waiting in the wings.'

    Whilst I am not comparing this minor discrimination 'by selection' against our disabled fellow-citizens, we must be watchful that discrimination, of a lesser nature, is not allowed to insidiously pervade our otherwise more enlightened and democratic society and ensure that we learn the lessons of history.

    I hope that you likewise will leqrn the lesson of intolerance and occupy your mind with more laudable subjects.

    Gordon Rhys Williams


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