Tim Eyre - Answered a Question by Pass (11 Dec 08 17:20)

I find the reaction to this to be ABSOLUTELY UNBELIEVABLE! Mr or Mrs Pass have posed a simple question and look at the replies! In particular, you should be ashamed of yourself Neil (Down). As a regular (and respected) contributor to this site, here you are paricipating in what can only be described as a bullying session! Because (I assume) as a non-smoker you now find yourself in the majority, why do you find it acceptable to "join the mob" and brow-beat those that still smoke? You also insult your OWN intelligence by posing the rediculous question regarding "a positive benefit from which we all gain by you smoking". Everyone (even you) does things that have absolutely no benefit to their wellbeing whatsoever but despite knowing this, do them anyway. The truth is (and this is my answer to your question Mr/Mrs Pass), that you will be able to smoke on Ventura but in very few areas. To Neil and the non-smokers, don't you realise that the battle is won? Accept the victory gracefully and allow the "fallen" to huddle up in their allotted dark corner somewhere out of sight and enjoy doing what they want to do. Which after all, is exactly what everyone else is doing.

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Roberts - Answered a Question by Pass (23 Nov 08 15:27)

Hopefully on a dingy pulled along around 50m behind.

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Lane - replied to Roberts (23 Nov 08 16:11)

Oh dear, another anti-smoking dig. Perhaps you could tell us about some of your pleasures and habits Roberts? (E.g. Eating meat, drinking alcohol, wearing cheap aftershave / perfume, talking loudly, cruising with children, taking forever to get down the gangplank, boring people silly at dinner, etc.) Come on, just give me something to work with... ;-).

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Roberts - replied to Lane (23 Nov 08 19:08)

I don't think any of the above examples you mention has an impact on health by proxy? I love a good steak, drinking alcohol but none of them can cause another person lung cancer or heart disease unless I decided to punch someone in the bar for smoking when drunk :P. Being still young you'd have no problem with me taking forever on the gang plank or up/down stairs.

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Lane - replied to Roberts (23 Nov 08 20:56)

You have been misled by politicians, charities and health campaigners who demand a smoke-free environment and consider it legitimate to deny freedom to smokers by pretending that their habit harms non-smokers. Perhaps you could cite a scientific study to support your claim. And by the way, enjoying a 'good steak' is a luxury you enjoy at the expense of millions of malnourished people because meat production is an extremely wasteful use of resources - sixteen pounds of grain and soya beans is needed to produce one pound of edible beef. Oh, and it has a real impact on the cow too...

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Roberts - replied to Lane (23 Nov 08 23:12)

Dont think you can win this argument really and I think the scientific studies has already been done been time to say people's smoke harms others. So how does Tobacco growing help these malnourished people. Growing Tobacco takes away vital land that could be used for growing food. Tobacco plantation farmers are more likely to get green tobacco sickness or a skin cancer due to the poisons in the plant and the crop spraying that goes on than from making a solid wage. Those fields could be used to grow grain rather than a poisons and non edible plant. I guess smoking takes away eating cravings but come on.... At least eating the steak gives a cow a life (for a bit) I'm sure there wouldnt be as many cows in the world if we didn't want to eat them :P.

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Lane - replied to Roberts (24 Nov 08 10:57)

I don't need to win the argument - you need to support your claim that passive smoking causes lung cancer and heart disease. Studies have shown that smoking is linked to these diseases in smokers just as studies have shown that meat-eating is linked to heart disease, various cancers and obesity, and that alcohol is linked to liver disease and anti-social behaviour. I notice that anti-alcohol propaganda is gaining speed, so it probably won't be long before drinkers find themselves subjected to disapproving glares while sitting huddled on deck around their cocktails. Oh, and I'm glad to see you're doing your bit for cows - by eating them...

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Lloyd - replied to Lane (24 Nov 08 18:21)

I just hope I'm NEVER on a cruise with you guys..Good job most boats have decent Kids Clubs for you to meet people at similar stages of "development".

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Roberts - replied to Lloyd (24 Nov 08 20:35)

HAHA....nice one Lloyd. Do you know if they have classes on the dangers of smoking in some of the clubs?

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Lane - replied to Roberts (24 Nov 08 22:27)

Okay, to sum up... 1. This discussion was instigated by a sarcastic dig at smokers. 2. I have not at any time promoted smoking or suggested it is a 'good thing'. 3. I have (citing a WHO study) countered unsupported claims that passive smoking causes lung cancer and heart disease. 4. I have used analogy to highlight the hypocrisy of those who feel unable to leave smokers alone but no one felt able to justify their own anti-social or unhealthy habits. 5. I have remained polite - resorting to insulting comments (as above) simply covers an inability to produce a rational argument. This thread is now sinking down the list so I shall leave it here - but I'll keep an eye out for future smoker-bullying answers to what (as was the case here) are perfectly reasonable questions.

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